4T60 / TH440-T4 Notes

Okay, I just did the swap, and having gotten a bad tranny (Pick and pull) I had to do it a second time. So I learned quite a bit about this swap and put together a bunch of notes. A lot of this is just stuff consolidated from other sites:

http://www.fieroaddiction.com/4T60a.html By Rockcrawl, possibly the master of this switch. He definitely knows more about this tranny than most people.

http://spacecoastfieros.com/tech/440-4T60/index.html By Karl Hamilton. A lot of good info here, as well.

http://home.sprynet.com/~theogre/tunnel6/index.htm Ogre's Cave. Click on the options and projects book, then the AOD bit in the menu on the left.

And also a lot of notes from the Fiero Forum: http://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/fiero/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro

Which if you have a Fiero and you're not reading, you should be. Tons of stuff here, especially in the archives.

Now the information on this page is not in any particular order. I made the page for my own needs as a place to keep information. However there is A LOT of stuff here not covered on the three pages above that I either learned on my own or from a thread/discussion on the forum. All of the charts here however are pretty much taken directly from the first three pages above. I really should go do individual attributions for them. A lot of the notes around the charts came with them. Read those sites, and you'll see how owns what. And really do read those sites! The more information you have, the better! And there may be things there I didn't put here, that are important to you, but weren't to me. (plus I know there is stuff there that is important that I didn't put here, so there!)

Also, further down on this page I will put information on basically how I did the swap. There won't be any pictures (I was too busy getting the job done, sorry!) but I will put the order I do things in, and how, as best as I remember it. 

GM TH440 / 4T60 4 speed automatic with 3.33 final drive

Year

Identification Tag Number

1987

7ACH, 7CAH

1988

8AJH, 8CDH, 8CFH, 8CMH, 8CRH, 8CTH, 8CWH, 8CXH

1989

9CDH, 9CLH. 9PAH, 9PBH, 9YAH, 9YBH, 9YFH, 9YJH

1990

0AJH, 0CHH, 0CJH, 0KHH, 0LAH, 0LMH, 0LNH, 0PAH, 0WXH, 0YDH,

0YHH, 0YKH, 0YLH, 0YRH, 0YSH, 0YTH

1991

1WXH, 1YAH, 1YDH, 1YHH, 1YSH, 1YTH

1992

2YAH, 2YBH, 2YKH

Note: I need to find a decoder for the above numbers. A 3.33 final drive may not mean 3.33 to the pavement. I don't know if the above numbers also signify a 35/35 sprocket combination on the chain drive. Yes there is a chain in your transaxle.

Model

1st

2nd

3d

4th

Reverse

TH125C

2.840

1.600

1.000

------

2.067

TH440

2.921

1.568

1.000

0.705

2.385

 

Speed

Engine RPM in high gears with indicated finals

Road

Axle RPM

2.84 1:1

2.84 OD

3.06 1:1

3.06 OD

3.33 1:1

3.33 OD

60

790.0

2243.6

1581.7

2417.4

1704.3

2630.7

1854.6

70

921.7

2617.5

1845.4

2820.3

1988.3

3069.2

2163.8

 

One source cited in several threads is Pontiac 6000 with AOD and Light Duty Brakes and no ABS. These are supposed to drop right in.

There are several combinations of axle used in 6000 so it's easy to get the wrong ones. By comparing notes from a number of articles/threads on axles and measuring the Fiero axle threads, I found the following in the CV Unlimited catalog. (You can download an Excel version of it from their site.) (this came from Ogre I think)

CVU #

Year

Make Model

Axle

Side

5257

1984-89

BUICK CENTURY

4 SPD. A/T W/ .785" DIA. THREADS

DRIVER

5257

1984-89

CHEV. CELEBRITY

4 SPD. A/T W/ .785" DIA. THREADS

DRIVER

5257

1984-89

OLDS CIERA

4 SPD. A/T W/ .785" DIA. SPINDLE

DRIVER

5257

1984-89

PONTIAC 6000

4 SPD. A/T W/ .785" DIA. THREADS

DRIVER

5258

1984-89

BUICK CENTURY

4 SPD. A/T W/ .785" DIA. THREADS

PASS

5258

1984-89

CHEV. CELEBRITY

4 SPD. A/T W/ .785" DIA. THREADS

PASS

5258

1984-89

OLDS CIERA

4 SPD. A/T W/ .785" DIA. SPINDLE

PASS

5258

1984-89

PONTIAC 6000

4 SPD. A/T W/ .785" DIA. THREADS

PASS

Notice that both the 6000, and the Ciera in the Space Coast article are listed. This should help you isolate the correct used parts as well as new ones if needed.

The most obvious determining factor between the various AOD axles for the cars above seems to be the diameter of the threaded portion of the outer CV. A spare Fiero axle nut is a good tool for checking that. It was the nut size specification that I used to figure out the data above... 0.785 inch is roughly 20mm. The "Wrong" ones have are larger (23-24mm) and won't fit the Fiero nut or hub opening

There are 3 variations of speedometer assemblies that I have seen on 4T60 transmissions. One type is almost exactly the same as the one used on the TH125C transmission and will plug directly into the Fiero speedometer connector. A 2nd type is almost the same as the first except the speed sensor (item 1) has been replaced with an assembly that screws into a mechanical speedometer cable. This type can be used if reassembled with speedometer sensor from your old transmission. Both the mechanical cable and sensor type speedometer assemblies are held in place by a 1-inch wire clip on the top of the governor cover. NOTE: The TH125C governor cover (item 3) is NOT interchangeable with the 4T60. (Note: This is incorrect from my experience, and that of Rockcrawls)

 

|--------Maximum-------|

 

 

Transmission
Model

Weight
(Lbs)

Engine
Torque
(lb/ft)

Gearbox
Torque
(lb/ft)

Gross
Veh. Wt.
(lbs)

Torque
Conv. Dia.
(inches)

Overall
Length
(inches)

Front Wheel Drive:

 

 

 

 

 

 

THM 125C (3T40)

161

200

416

5100

9.64

 

THM 440-T4 (4T60)

195

235

369

5181

9.64

 

4T60-E

203

280

390

6400

9.64

 

4T65-E

214

285

400

6400

9.64/10.16

 

4T80-E

295

305

461

6800

10.43

 

Gear Ratio Chart:

Transmission
Model

First

Second

Third

Fourth

Reverse

Front Wheel Drive:

 

 

 

 

 

THM 125C (3T40)

2.840

1.600

1.000

-----

2.067

THM 440-T4 (4T60)

2.921

1.568

1.000

0.705

2.385

4T60-E

2.921

1.568

1.000

0.705

2.385

4T65-E

2.921

1.568

1.000

0.705

2.385

4T80-E

2.960

1.626

1.000

0.681

2.130

 

MPH = (Engine RPM * Radius) / (Final Gear Ratio * 168)

The 'Final Gear Ratio' is merely the product of all gear ratios involved. Thus, in our example it is 5.885 (1.708 * .973 * 1.25 * 2.833). We can now use the formula:

MPH = (2,000 * 12.81) / (5.885 * 168)
MPH = 25,620 / 988.68
MPH = 25.91

TH125 & 4T60 Gear Ratios

When most people think about final ratios in TH125c (3T40) and 440-T4 (4T60) transmissions, they simply assume that it means the final drive gears. Problem is things don't work that way in these units. Here are the 10 RPO codes and the three final gear sets that go with them.

RPO Code

Ratio

Sun Gear

F16, F17, F62, F75

2.84:1

38 Teeth

FP3, FW2, FW9

3.06:1

34 Teeth

F77, F79, GX3

3.33:1

30 Teeth

Please note: The table above is based on information from a GM TSB and the transmission parts catalog from Aceomatic Transmissions. Those really are the only three final gear sets available for the TH125 or TH440-T4.

 

Here are all the possible ratios and the RPO codes for ones GM actually built. These RPO codes are additional to the Transaxle Type RPO. This means that on a vehicle's build sticker you'll find MD9 for TH125c (3T40) or ME9 for 440-T4 (4T60) and one of the codes below to tell you how the transmission is geared. (Assuming you still have the original transmission...) The last column reflects a couple spots where GM and MS Excel rounded the number differently.

Actual Final Gear (X:1)

Chain Drive/Driven

Chain Ratio (Y:1)

Total Reduction (X*Y:1)

Transaxle Ratio RPO

RPO says (If dif)

2.84

35/35

1

2.84

F17

 

 

37/33

0.89

2.53

F16

 

 

38/32

0.84

2.39

F62

 

 

33/37

1.12

3.18

F75

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3.06

35/35

1

3.06

FW2

 

 

37/33

0.89

2.72

FP3

2.73

 

38/32

0.84

2.57

 

 

 

33/37

1.12

3.43

FW9

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3.33

35/35

1

3.33

GX3

 

 

37/33

0.89

2.96

F79

2.97

 

38/32

0.84

2.80

 

 

 

33/37

1.12

3.73

F77

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chain Ratios of less than 1:1 are over driven

Gear Ratios

Just in case someone needs them...

RPO

Transmission

1st

2nd

3rd

4th

Reverse

MD9

THM 125c (3T40)

2.840

1.600

1.000

NA

2.067

ME9

THM 440-T4 (4T60)

2.921

1.568

1.000

0.705

2.385

 

I forget who posted this:

You may also have missed out on the opportunity to install a higher stall converter. It makes a big difference going from what was probably 1800 stall to 2300. My 3.4L had a 2385 stall converter (~$65) on a 4 speed automatic with 3.33 final drive and from a stand still it would smoke the tires if you floored it.

FZ -- 2390 stall behind a 4 cyl
FY -- 2060 stall behind a 6 cyl
FJ -- 2060 stall behind a 4 cyl
FD -- 2090 stall behind a 6 cyl
FG -- less than 1800 stall behing a 6 cyl

Notes and Errata.

Note: The TCC went from a 4 wire plug to a 5 wire plug in 1990. I have also heard from recyclers that the 87 tranny isn't that hot. (My bad one was an 87).

Note: The pontiac 6000 motor mounts work well, and the axles from a pontiac 6000, 1987, Light duty brakes, no ABS fit perfectly.

Note: This tranny takes AT LEAST 12 quarts of fluid, more like 14. (I think 6 of that goes in the TC)

Note: Get the metal tranny cooling lines with the tranny. Your TH125 ones won't work right as they're the wrong length and not bent.

Note: You can get an adjustable vacuum modulator from: http://www.bulkparts.com/MM007.ASP?pageno=687 you want the one with the plunger, or go to autozone and ask for model: Deutsch MV303 (Thanks to Rockcrawl for that, he uses it).

Note: If you have a 3.4L engine, you may have to grind some more off the block by where the one bolt connects the tranny and engine from the opposite side of the others. The 4T60 is larger, and needs more removed than the TH125.

Note: The tranny line support bracket by the motor mount was a pain in the butt for me. I suggest not using it.

Note: You can swap governors from the TH125 in many cases. May make it shift better. May not. Up to you to experiment if you want to.

Note: On the 5 pin TCC switch:

A. RED +12V from brake switch. This is PURPLE on the FIERO (pin A on the trans).
B. WHITE 4th gear switch (you won't use this).
C. GRN 3rd gear switch (you won't use this).
D. BLK To the ECM TCC control. This is BLK/TAN on the FIERO (pin D on the trans).
E. BLUE Temp sender (you won't use this). (Also, this isn't always a temp sensor, depends on year)

The pins on the trans aren't in order (that would have made sense...).

TOP

E
B C
A D

Bottom

Again,there are a couple of different wiring pinouts so you need to check for the red and black wires for the TCC.

(Thanks to Terry, TK on the forum)

Note: Most fiero shifters will still let you shift to 1st, though it will be off the indicator. At least mine does.

 

How I did it. (Well at least what works for me!)

 

Okay, I'm not the fastest mechanic in the west, but I can pull the tranny by myself in about 4 hours, and put it back in, in about the same time (this includes taking it off the cradle). One thing I recommend is that you buy A motorcycle jack/lift. They cost about 100 dollars at costco, and have two large rubber covered arms that stay level as they go up and down. Mine handles 1500 lbs. More than enough to hold the cradle. I also leave the engine in the car when I pull the trans, cause it's easier.

Anyway, this is how I do it. Note that all the standard disclaimers apply: I take no responsibility for anything that happens to you if you follow this, and this list may be incomplete, I expect you to look at it carefully and think long and hard. Any screwups are your fault and responsibility, not mine. Also some things can be done in different order.

Please Note: YOU MUST have an 18mm open end/box wrench, an 18mm deep and 18mm shallow socket. Or you'll never get this done. You also need the same in 13mm and 15mm. Any type of 10mm will deal with the small ones. I forget the size of the axle nut, but it is big and you'll need a breaker bar. Refer to your manuals for torque settings!

  1. Loosen (break) the lug nuts
  2. Loosen (break) the axle nut (That's the big honkin one in the center)
  3. Remove the trunk lid
  4. Remove the grills and the associated hardware
  5. Break the tranny to engine bolts
  6. Remove the strut bolts (3 to a side)
  7. Disconnect the wires to the tranny.
  8. Disconnect the TV cable to the Tranny (if pulling a 4T60, take out the vacuum modulator now too).
  9. Break all the cradle bolts (some may be very tight)
  10. Put a 4x4 across the engine bay, as far to the back as you can get it (it will cover the forward most of the strut bolts) and chain the engine to it. I think it's 59 1/2 inches long, not sure. And use a good piece of wood, if this breaks you're in trouble (Also keep an eye on it and make sure it doesn't slide forward. Mine goes about an inch which was okay for me, but keep an eye on it. And DON'T remove the dog bone.)
  11. Jack the car up now with a floor jack, and put the jack stands under it. Remember they can't be on the cradle, they have to be closer to the front. Some of the pictures on the links show good places for these, make sure they're secure! And that they're not damaging anything! Also, whenever you go under the car, make sure it's on both the stands and the floor jack. And make sure you have a good set of stands and floor jack. Don't want anyone getting hurt! Be careful and chock the front wheels.
  12. Remove the wheels.
  13. Loosen the tranny mounts, front and back. (4 nuts, take them down a little ways but don't take them off yet)
  14. Remove the engine mounting bolts. That's the bolt thru the base of the piston/shock absorber thing, and the two nuts on the passenger's side by the rear axle. You can loosen the dogbone a little so it pivots easier, but don't take it out.
  15. Disconnect the exhaust pipe, and don't lose the donut (or buy a new one).
  16. Disconnect the flywheel from the tranny (use a large screw driver to turn it, and these are 18mm bolts.) Use the box end of the 18mm to break the bolts and the crescent end to take them out or you'll get it stuck in there. Move the bolts to the rear of the car if they can't fit out between the flywheel and oil ban. There should be space back there.
  17. Remove the engine to tranny brace by the passenger's side axle! Forget this and you won't get anywhere!
  18. Pull the dipstick tube (But watch out!! Tranny fluid will pour out if not drained!)
  19. Remove the tranny cooling lines. Remember which goes where if you're putting a 3 speed back in. Also these will dump a nice amount of fluid as well.
  20. Remove the brakes including the emergency brake cables! These must be disconnected from the calipers, and disconnect the mechanism in the back where the cable is adjusted.
  21. Remove the axle nut
  22. Remove the hub (note!! Mark the hub and the part of the car it attaches to. You want to put this back in the same way it came out!) The hub is the thing with three bolts in it that holds the studs for the wheel if you're not sure.
  23. Now, remove the tranny bolts. The lower two (front and back) are a real pain because the back one is reversed, and the front one has that water pipe. I cut one of the mounting point brackets off that pipe (The one closer to the left side of the car). It made my life much easier. I left the one that bolts to the tranny however. Also, there is a wiring harness along the back of the tranny. Make sure that it isn't still connected to the tranny. Make note of the three ground wires that are attached to the car here as well. You may want to pull the battery prior to this.
  24. Split the engine from the tranny (well it really won't split now, put just make sure that you can move them apart a little with a crowbar, they'll slide back together usually at this point)
  25. Remove the floor jack and put the motorcycle jack under the car, and make sure it's holding some of the cradle's weight. (This part is up to you. I removed the rear two and then used a floor jack under the forward cradle cross member to take the weight off of the front two pivoting bolts to get them out. Some finesse (a rubber mallet) may be needed here. Just be careful, you don't want to suddenly end up with an unbalanced load.) NOTE: I put that jack such that it is primarily supporting the TRANNY, which is why you CANNOT remove the tranny mounting bolts, you only loosen them so the tranny can shift on the cradle to help with the splitting! Personally I let the right side of the jack go under one of the exhaust pipes as well, this keeps the cradle nice and level. I do not put any part of the rear cross member on the lift at all however)
  26. Now slowly let the cradle down and keep an eye on that 4x4!! And every inch or two try to pry the engine and tranny apart. I found that until the engine had settled enough that it was free of the cradle and supported solely by the 4x4 that they wouldn't separate. Then it came apart quite suddenly and nicely. The dog bone should keep the engine and 4x4 from sliding forward too far (it will probably cause it to slide forward a little, maybe an inch, as it pivots). Once the tranny and engine have separated (use a crowbar or something similar to keep prying them apart) it should lower to the ground no problem.
  27. Remove axles (if you're swapping tranny's) and rotate the shock towers out of the way so you can roll it all out. You can remove the tranny mounts now if you want.
  28. If you're putting in a 4T60, you're going to need some of the TH125's mounts (like half of them. All of this is covered on the sites mentioned at the top of this page, along with the drilling aspect. They describe it far better than I ever could).

 

Reinstalling is pretty muck just doing everything in reverse. Get the tranny and cradle nicely balanced on that lift and roll it under the car. Once you have the cradle secure and have started to lift the engine and tranny into place (by secure I mean the bolts are in the cradle and the engine is starting to rise as you lift the cradle and it's pretty much even with the tranny but just won't seem to line up perfectly and pull together) you can disconnect the dogbone. A good shake or two and it will probably mate right up. Also, a jack under the oil pan, close to the tranny (after the cradle is bolted in) will help the tranny and engine to slide together now, because they're sagging at this point. This is just more 'finesse'.

Remember to watch those two bolts for the engine mount on the passengers side, some coercion with a large bar may be needed to line them up. Also keep an eye on the shock towers and as soon as they are lined up and in put some bolts on them. You don't want it all falling out now, do you?

And DON'T forget to bolt the flywheel to the Torque converter! And don't tighten down the first bolt until all three have been put in. And make sure that the torque converter really is seated all the way down on that spline!

 

If you are putting in the 4T60 something's to remember:

  1. Remove the Vacuum modulator, it won't clear the water pipe.
  2. You'll have to make some kind of custom tranny/engine bracket (That's the one that goes between the tail end of the tranny and the engine)
  3. You will have to use some finesse (ie a large metal bar) applied carefully to move the tranny around a little.
  4. Make sure that the Vacuum modulator really is bolted down (pull on it!) otherwise it will pop out the first time you step on the gas hard and make quite a mess.

 

Again, Disclaimer: I am not a professional mechanic, and this information is offered for suggestion only. I take no responsibility at all. If you hurt yourself, or damage your car, don’t come to me.

 

I do hope this helps. This is not the best way to do it, I'm sure there are much better ones. This is just the way I've done it, and it has worked for me. Good luck.